Guild Raid Rules

To be used with sanctioned Raids/Parties in Instances
(Updated August 17 2006)

This is a "living" document.  Input is highly valued.  Suggestions will be reviewed and applied accordingly.

Absolute “No Excuse” Rules

1. Need before Greed.
2. No “ninja” looting.
3. Be respectful.

“Need before Greed” – means to have a “need” of a loot/treasure drop not a want for the current character you are using.  This may include recipes for professions you have, armor upgrades, weapon upgrades, trinket upgrades, etc.  The treasure item must be better (or missing from your recipes list) than you currently have to be a “need”.  A “greed” or want is just to have it or to sell it for profit.

“Ninja” looting – means to take an item or chest from another player without consent of the player or party/raid near by of the same faction.  This can occur 2 ways.
1. The single person was working their way to the obvious loot site (chest, mineral deposit, skinning, etc.) and got caught in combat.  You are nearby and move to take.
2. A treasure loot drops from a “boss” monster or similar mob and you take the item (generally rare, bind on pickup, or epic) without consent from the party/raid group on need or greed.

Respectful – meaning use good mannerisms and maturity with your fellow gamers (guild or nonguild).  This includes statements, language, expressions, etc.  We all come from varying backgrounds, gaming styles, and age groups.  Think before you act/type.  Good form and behavior is a requirement.  Confrontation or unsatisfactory behavior is not tolerated.   Persists annoyance will result in the player being booted from the raid group and be dealt with later.

Expectations for Raids

1. Raid Leader - There will be a party leader or a raid leader.  They will set the tone and direction of the run.  From group invites to loot rules.  If it’s a PUG (“pick up group”), expect varied looting rule options.  If guild based run, expect the leader to follow the guidelines posted here.  Leader of the raid or 5-man party which consists of all guild members should be the highest ranking member of the guild.  This may be waved by the ranking member.  However, if the raid/party is established initially by a low rank member and a high rank member joins, the higher rank member may ask to be "leader" of the group.  Only by "good" reason can this request be refused.
2. Time commitment - Please understand that joining a group of an instance is a time commitment.  Of course, real life comes first.  But it is bad form to join and then having to go, because a favorite movie is coming on.  Establish prior to the run the time or if you can not commit to the full time required please give advance warning.  Instances can run from a few hours to nearly 6 or more.  Higher game-end raids are real time hogs.
3. Be prepared – Come ready for the raid.  This means:
a. All equipment is repaired
b. Have enough bullets/arrows/throwing weapons for range attacks.
c. Bring enough food and water…especially hunters.
d. Have enough soul shards.
e. Have enough anhks, candles, acorns, berries, etc. for party buffs and combat/self rezs.
f. Come with bandages and potions.
g. Flash powder and poison.
h. Bring necessary “keys” and quest items.
i. Have bag space for loot.
j. Appropriate updates to certain Mods to UI that are required.
k. Used the bathroom and have drink/eat nearby.
l. Be rested up or be aware of late night raids and the impact of such.
4. Behavior – Cannot say this often enough, be respectful.  Refer to our membership creed and the third rule of the “absolute “no excuse” rules”.
5. Instruction and criticism – Expect instruction and even advice (criticism).  Do not assume you are be bossed around.  Some portions of dungeons have certain strategies where instruction is necessary --- stand here, do this, wait for sunders, etc.  Know your role in the game and party.  Be constructive in criticism.  Don't point fingers of blame for "raid wipes" or similar incidents.  Be helpful not harmful.  If you have advice on something, try to be constructive and not critical.
6. Raids can go bad/unsuccessful – It’s the nature of the game, raids will go “bad” - time may be a factor, everyone’s gear is broken, too many wipes, maybe it’s a PUG issue, looting issues, etc.. All of this wears thin on patience.   If people are too stressed, ask, "do we want to continue?"  Don't point fingers. Don't argue. Don't guild quit.  Take time away from the instance. Refresh. Think about the raid. If you still have a complaint, handle it properly. Don't overreact. Its more harmful than good.   Remember its just a game and more than likely you’ll be back at the dungeon again….it’s the way Blizzard designed the game.
7. Raid sign ups – Do not sign up for multiple raids.  Stay committed to one.  If you think one raid will be done before another, then most likely all things will go against you and face a time sink.  Why?  Distraction from the current raid thinking about the next one coming up.  Also, it may put false hope in the other group that they will be able to run as well.

How to setup a Raid/Event and Attending

1. Must be guild member to setup an event.
2. Proposed raids should be posted to the guild forum page, group calendar, or by using Guild Event Manager (GEM).  Include all details from level requirements, time slot, number of members, classes needed and dungeon are required.
3. Decide on the Raid Leader.  See rule 1 under “Expectations for Raids.”
4. State loot rules.  Whether our specific loot rules for whole guild runs, or modified ones for a PUG group.
5. State goals and possible time limit.
6. If you signed up, show up.  If you cannot commit, then state in as much advance time as possible.  If you have to leave early, state so.
7. If you grow tired or need a biological break (bathroom), make it known.  So break schedule at certain points can be taken or end the raid.
8. If RL (real life) demands your immediate attention, make it known and apologize for the inconvenience to others.  But go ASAP, this is a game, RL will not wait for some cases.
9. Make it known that this game is for FUN, not stress.

Looting Rules

General Loot Rules

These guidelines should be adhered to for the general fun of every one.  This section is for general guidelines.  Then specific sections follow to cover 5 man/general questing and raid groups (10, 20, 40 man).

1. Need before greed.
2. No “ninja” looting.
3. All chests are to be rolled.  If the locks are picked by a rogue or “keyed” by a blacksmith, the contents are not theirs by default.  All members in the party/raid should roll “/rand 100” for the chest.
4. Mineral deposits, herbs, and maybe skinnable foes should be put on rotation or rolled for by attending members.  Exceptions include dungeons of end game – core leather, etc.  This material should be sent to the guild bank.
5. Loot rolling may use loot master, group loot, or a basic “/rand 100” for passed on items.  Depends on the instance, items, etc.
6. All BOP (Bind On Pickup), one drop quest items, materials, recipes, BOE (bind on equip) rares and epics are to be "passed" initially and then a "/rand 100" used to determine winner.  This is overruled if a "need" is presented or is "class specific".  It can be elected that the item be passed into the guild treasury to be used later.  Such as end-game raids for extreme rare components for class-specific quests or profession recipes.  Party/Raid leader must use extreme good judgment here.
7. If you already have received a blue (rare) item once, and there are others who can need, you should pass on further blues.  Its good form.  Of course, the others may incline to allow you to “need” anyways….but ask before you do this.
8. Armor and Weapon Need.  Sometimes certain armors may give bonuses that are desirable for certain situations, such as a shaman taking a healer role.  Cloth items are need to cloth wearers first over other armor types.  Mail need goes to warriors <40 level or hunters/shaman over 40.  Plate goes to warriors.  Leather need goes to rogues, druids, and hunters/shaman of <40 level.  Weapons are more complicated and will be determined on a case by case issue.
9. No unnecessary disenchanting of items.  This can be viewed as ninja looting.
10.  BOE (bind on equip) epics (purples), unwanted BOE rares (blues), greedable recipes, materials, and disenchanted items can be sent to the guild bank.  The guild leadership views such actions as good form and helpful to the overall health of the guild.
11.  The character you are using at the time of the raid/quest/etc. is what you must use for “need” roll purposes.  You can not need for you alternate characters.  You can need for on recipes for only the character you are currently using.
12. Unless stated otherwise, disputes will be resolved by the highest ranking guild officer at the time of the instance (whether or not they chose to be the party leader).

5 Man Party and Questing Groups

1. Use the above stated rules.
2. For dungeons of level 55+ (Black Rock Depths, Stratholme, Scholomance, Dire Maul), loot setting may be set to rare.  Loot master may also be used.

10 man Raids

1. Set loot setting to rare.
2. Greens magic items are generally considered loot for the finder.  There may be a need from an attending member and they may ask for the item.  Its considered good form to pass that item to the member asking for it.
3. Generally, loot master may be set at the beginning of the run or right before a “boss” monster.
4. Use the above stated general loot rules with these notable exceptions.

20/40 man Raids

This section is being tested and considered experimental.  This is a casual type of guild where DKP point hoarding is frowned upon and loot fairness & balance is welcome.  This class need loot system has thus been setup for examination and trial use.

Future modification or even DKP may be implemented later.


Much thought has gone into the type of system we will use in 20 / 40 man raids and we have reached the following system.   We will establish a new position in the raid known as "Class Leader".  These class leaders will form the Guild Loot Council and will have the following duties.

Class Leader Position

1. Must be guild rank disciple or higher.
2. Must have a level 60 with the given class.
3. Can petition for this “special” guild position or selected.
4. Must be a team player, generally helpful, and absolutely honest.
5. Have good judgment for cross-class item drops.  Example – bow drop and claims from hunters, rogues, and warriors come across.

Class Leaders must be aware of the characters attending the scheduled raid and what items they have.  This may be handled by a few ways.

1. Examining a player’s updated CT profile.
2. “Viewing” a character prior to a run.
3. At point of “need” claim, ask the player to flash their current item for comparison to what dropped.

During the raid, set up a class chat channel, named <class name> black.  So for hunters, “hunterblack”.  Join these channels at time of raids and discuss “need” for purposes of loot discussion.  For flashing of items, its preferred to use whisper over raid or guild channels.

If at time of a cross-class item drop, discuss with opposing Class Leaders and/or Factol for fairness.

Any display of favoritism in loot distribution will be dealt with by the officers of the guild.  Repeated offences can result in demotion from class leader to previous ranks within the guild. Further duties of Class leaders will be discussed within the officer core and announced at a later date.

Loot Discussion Examples.

To ensure fair and honest distribution of all class items and all cross class items within the guild.   We will be doing it in the following manner as dictated by the next two examples.

Example 1 - MC RUN: Giant Stalkers leggings drop.

This is clearly a hunter’s item so the hunter class lead will direct the distribution of the loot. He will first ask hunters to state need on the item in raid chat. (During this time keep raid chat free during the distribution) It may look like this.

Hunter 1: I could use this item my last drop was the tier 0 boots I have none of the tier 1 set

Hunter 2: I could use this item also and my last drop was the Giant Stalkers Bracers. I have 2/8 of the tier 1 set

Hunter 3: This is the last set Item I need for the tier 1 set but I can pass for the others knowing this will drop again

Hunter 4: Pass I already have the item

Now since we are attempting to implement an honor system and achieve balanced distribution of loot The Class leader can say. Hunters 1 and 2 please roll random 1 to 100 for the item.

The decisions for such cases will be trained ahead of time and we will try to teach our class leaders during this training what the overall objection of the loot system is.

Hunter 1 rolls 56
Hunter 2 rolls 76

Hunter 2 wins the item

Class Leader: Hunter 2 wins with a roll of 76 Lootmaster please give the item to Hunter two.

There will be times when cross class specific items may drop. For example an epic dagger to which can be used by hunters and rogues. The following will take place. In a channel designated by the officers and only for Officers and Class leaders the Rogue Class Leader and Hunter Class Leader will discuss which call may benefit from the item better. If a decision is made that both classes have equal benefit from the item then the item will be opened for both classes and the conversation is simulated below. They will decide between them who will auction the item off.

Rogue Class Leader: This item is opened for Hunters and Rogues Only. Please state need of the item, last drop and number of epics you now have. Additionally you may only bid for the item if you already have the learned skill for the Item

Rogue 1: I need this item the Last drop I received were the nightslayer helmet. I have 1/8 tier one set and the offhand dagger shadowblade.  This will be an upgrade for me.

Hunter 1: I really like the agility on this knife but I personally believe that rogue 1 will benefit from this item. So I pass

Hunter 2: I like the agi too on this item and the weapon I have now has no agi points on it. Last Item I received was the Dragon stalker bindings and I have 1/8 of the tier two set and the epic bow from ZG.

Rogue 2: Well I use swords and am sword spec so I pass on the item.

Hunter 3: Nice item but I do not have dagger skills so I pass.

Class Leader: Hunter 2 and Rogue 1 Please roll random 100 for the item.

Hunter 2: rolls 1 (raid cheers for his super roll)

Rogue 1: rolls 89

Class Leader: Rogue 1 wins, Lootmaster please give Rogue 1 the item.


Advanced rules for loot distribution.

1. General loot rules apply with the following stated exceptions.
2. All Boss fights will happen in the loot master mode to prevent ninja looting
3. BOP recipes distribution will be decided by the Officers of the guild and not the class leader since these are not class specific items. BOE recipes will fall under the same ruling but may be banked for later use.
4. In the event that all the members present already have the item then the item will be disenchanted by a designated disenchanter and banked for later use or for sale in the event of a surplus.
5. BOE Items will be banked if no need is displayed by the raid and distributed at the discretion of the officers responsible for the bank.
6. Molten Core Materials will be looted and sent to guild bank – fiery cores, lava cores, and core leather.
7. Zul’gurub & AQ coins, idols, and similar quest items will be rolled for at moment of drop.  Wait for instruction before rolling.
8. Onyixia’s Scales will be looted Sent to the Bank and Onyixia Scaled Cloaks will be made from them until such a time that the complete population of the guild is equipped with the cape. This cape along with BWL attunement is prerequisite for participation in BWL raids.


Ninja Looting and How to deal with it

So what does one do, if a “ninja looting” action occurs.

1. Immediately set the looting rules to loot master.
2. Ask the offender their reasons behind the action.
a. If they don’t speak, remove them immediately from the run.  They are a “gold farmer”.
b. If they do and state inconsistencies, remove them from the run.
c. If they state it was a mistake, keep the loot master set and watch for the same problem.
3. Ask the looter of the object (if non-BOP) will accept a roll off.
a. If they say no, remove them from the run.
b. If they say yes, perform usual request of need and greed.

Chests and Profession Mats.
1. Ask the offender their reason behind the action.
a. If they don’t speak, remove them immediately from the run.  They are a “gold farmer”.
b. If they do and state inconsistencies, remove them from the run.
c. If they state it was a mistake, watch for the same problem.  A repeat should be an immediate removal from party.

Offender is a Guilder
1. Report the person and situation to a guild officer.
2. There will be a discussioni/investigation/interview about the incident.
3. Repeat offenses may result in demotion in guild rank or guild removal.

Offender is a non-Guilder
1. Report the character, guild affiliation, and situation to a guild officer.
2. There will be a discussion/investigation/interview about the incident.
3. If found to be valid, the character and/or affiliated guild may be blacklisted.

Most important lets have fun.  It is only a game!
You only get out of it what you put into it!
Where there is unity, there is strength!!

Contributed by Pestalence, Satyr, and Temalar